Few artist-producer collaborations in contemporary pop music have been as successful as Olivia Rodrigo and Dan Nigro. Since the singer burst onto the scene with her record-breaking debut single, "drivers license" in 2021, she's been an unstoppable force, with three No. 1s, a streak of Top 10 singles, and three GRAMMYs — and Nigro has been integral in that success.
The Long Island, New York native has solely produced or co-produced every song Rodrigo has released to date, as well as co-writing the majority alongside the superstar. Following the blockbuster success of Rodrigo's debut album, 2021's SOUR, the two struck again with the equally industry-shaking follow-up, 2023's GUTS.
Like its predecessor, GUTS scored Rodrigo and Nigro multiple GRAMMY nominations, including Album Of The Year and both Song and Record Of The Year for the scathing lead single, "vampire." But for Nigro, the 2024 GRAMMY nominations are even more special: his work earned a nod for Producer Of The Year (Non-Classical).
And while he may be Rodrigo's right-hand man, it's far from his only acclaimed collaboration. Nigro's production and songwriting on Irish singer/songwriter Dermot Kennedy's 2022 album, Sonder, and rising pop star Chappell Roan's debut LP, The Rise and Fall of a Midwest Princess, also helped him land the honor.
In fact, Nigro's path to his Producer Of The Year nomination is more than a decade in the making — embodying as many surprise twists and turns as the music he's now known for.
After his initial taste of industry success in the midst of the early-00s pop-punk scene as a member of the band As Tall as Lions, Nigro landed his first big break as a behind-the-scenes impresario with a McDonald's jingle. A string of high-profile collaborations materialized in the next few years, with the likes of Sky Ferreira, Kylie Minogue and Carly Rae Jepsen.
Through that evolution, Nigro gained a reputation as a whisperer for tender singer/songwriters known for their candid lyrics. And along with Rodrigo, he's lately become a go-to producer/co-wrote for Conan Gray, Caroline Polachek and the aforementioned Roan.
Ahead of the 2024 GRAMMYS, Nigro detailed his unique path and creative process to GRAMMY.com, also offering an inside look inside making one of the biggest albums of 2023.
The path of your career in music has been unique. Was this end result always a goal?
It definitely wasn't. It's interesting because I did an interview with [the podcast] And The Writer is… a couple years ago, and it was cool to have so many people reach out to me after that, and relating to it, and feeling like they were on the same journey. But where I ended up is not where I thought.
When I moved out to L.A., honestly my goal was to just be able to make a life making music and be happy. The thought of being nominated for GRAMMYs or having No. 1 songs wasn't the goal. My only thought was, If I can make music for commercials, I'll be able to pay my rent doing that. That was the dream, just to make enough money to sustain myself as a musician.
Along with developing a universe of artists around you, along the way you also developed your own sound. Was that something you consciously nurtured, or did it naturally evolve?
It definitely evolved over time. It's learning new things every day and making music with new people and finding new ways to be inspired by other people and other music. Like anything, you take the best of what you learn and put it in your arsenal — like how a person might mic an acoustic guitar a certain way, or how another person focuses on lyrics more so than melody.
Everybody has their different ways of making music and what's important to them. So you take what makes sense and resonates with you. But hopefully, it's an ever-evolving sound.
Read More: Here Are The Producer Of The Year, Non-Classical GRAMMY Nominees At The 2024 GRAMMYs
When it comes to the GRAMMY nominations for GUTS, which one is most meaningful to you? Producer Of The Year?
Probably. To be honest, I was so shocked when I heard [we were nominated]. I'm nervous and an anxious person already, so I just didn't watch when they announced them. I was like, I don't want to know what's happening. Somebody will call me.
I went out for a walk with my wife, Emily, and my baby, Saoirse, and when we went out the front door, a FaceTime came through from Olivia. She was like, "Congratulations!" I was like, "Cool. For what?!"
She was so pumped and crying. I really didn't think it was going to happen, because you're getting nominated by a group of peers. It's so subjective and you have no clue what's going to happen.
I think what's forgotten is that when you started working with Olivia on her breakout song, "driver's license," and debut album, SOUR, is that you as a team weren't chasing any trends; you created what you both thought these songs should sound like. Now we have so many artists chasing that very sound you helped popularize, from diary-like lyrics to utilizing actual instruments, the latter of which you and her brought back to the charts. Can you describe how you built on that for GUTS?
That's the greatest thing about Olivia, I have to give her that credit. I say this to everyone I work with, and maybe it's cliché, but you're really only as good as the artist that you're working with. But I remember at times in the beginning thinking to myself, "Wow, we are literally using all live instruments."
For GUTS, we did a couple of those songs live, which came from Olivia telling me what she wanted the songs to sound like and feel like. I remember having to take a step back and be like, "Wow, we have one of the biggest artists in the world and she wants it to be recorded live."
She [wanted] the authenticity and the push and pull of the music. I just thought, "We're going to need to do this live." That's fun to do, but I had never done it with her or a big pop artist before.
I remember we went in to record "all american b—" and "ballad of a homeschooled girl." We went into the studio, had the musicians there, and I had it all mapped out in a Pro-Tools sketch, like a really bad demo. But we didn't know if we'd actually achieve it or come back two days later and say, "Wow, that was a waste of money and time."
What was so exciting for me was when GUTS took shape, because that session was so successful. Me and my engineer Dave [Schiffman] looked at each other afterwards like, "Wow, after only three days we got a lot." I was shocked it all really worked out.
When I was back in my home studio and listened to it with fresh ears a week later, I was like, "This feels good!" The songs that were the missing links to the record were there.
I sent Olivia "ballad of a homeschooled girl" and she was like, "It's incredible, I love it!" So we were good — she loves it, and I love it.
How did you record Olivia's vocals? It seems to me like her voice has a sort-of lo-fi filter. Maybe a cheaper microphone, for lack of a better descriptor.
For a couple of the songs, I put an effect on her to make it sound like that, but we actually recorded it on a very fancy mic. But it's a plug-in in Pro-Tools, I think it's called Vintage Vinyl from a company that made it sound like it was recorded in the 60s or something. I wish I could say we used an old vintage mic on that, but we didn't.
Whether SOUR or GUTS, you recorded the majority of the album in your home studio. Are you careful to not mix it up so much by going to a fancier place with a whole set-up, entourage, etc?
It was intentional. We enjoyed making SOUR, and it felt like a special moment for both of us in our lives, and it was all done in the home studio. So we decided very early on, Why would we want to change that up just because we're more successful now?
Olivia said, "I want to make it in your garage again, I like writing songs in there." But when we worked on SOUR, I lived here while we were making it, but I don't anymore. It's the same place, but now the entire house is the studio. The only thing that's changed is that one of the bedrooms that was my bedroom is the live room with a drum set, organ and piano. The garage itself is only 180 sq feet.
How does the energy of a song reveal itself? Listening to your productions, some of them are subtle and others explode with energy. Meanwhile, you're also known to vacillate with a single song going from demure to a wild burst in seconds.
Everyone has different interpretations about what makes a great song, and one of the first bands I got obsessed with listening to the production of a song was Queen. I loved how they took you on this journey.
I always feel weird when music is singular. I know some people produce songs that are one thing the whole way through, and we obviously make songs like that as well, but I think it's important on a lot of records to have a few songs where you go on a journey. If you listen to the first half of a song you couldn't tell what the last half would sound like.
People talk all the time about "passive listening music," and I don't like making that. I want to make music for people to listen to with intent, and you go on that journey. I hope we make more songs that do that because those are always my favorite.
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SOUR could have been a once-in-a-career moment for everybody involved. And people always say having a breakout like that is easier than making a huge success again because it so rarely happens. How did you grapple with expectations when it came to working on the follow-up?
It was really hard for both Olivia and I. We're really good at balancing each other out — when one person was feeling down and negative, the other tries to get them out of a hole and vice versa. It's hard to not let the voices get in your head with expectations or what you think people would think and really make what you just want to make.
It actually took us a long time to get to the point where we both felt comfortable that we made the music we just wanted to make, and get enough confidence. In the beginning of making the record, you feel imposter syndrome: Will I ever do that again? What even is that to be done again?
But we came back to the simple fact that we made songs we like to make and we'll do that again — and to find solace in the fact that if it's not as big as SOUR, it doesn't really matter, because we're making music we like. And you hope people follow you on your journey along the way.
From Olivia to Conan Gray and Chappell Roan, all of the artists you work with are known for the raw, unfiltered honesty in their lyrics. How did you become a creative whisperer for this specific style?
I don't know what makes them want to work with me half the time. I'm so slow and more indecisive than the artist can be.
I approach it with a band mentality. We're in it together. And maybe that's my strength or my weakness, but I want to be involved. I want to know why an artist likes a song or doesn't; I see the kind of gray areas.
To me, there's so much nuance in between what makes a song good — like if it's one little part that makes it special and nurturing that to make it bigger. I think that's what I bring to the table; helping these artists see their vision and seeing if we as a group find something special in a song.
For example, I might try five different types of production on it. It's about that feeling when you know there's something there, but it's about getting it onto the tape to make it feel special sometimes. It's a journey, but I think a lot of people don't like to do it like that, for some reason. They record something quickly and decide then and there, "That's it" and it's very black and white.
"vampire" is nominated for Song Of The Year and Record Of The Year. What can you tell me about the evolution of that track?
It was one of the hardest songs on the album to make. Olivia brought in the original idea for it, which was basically a verse and a chorus in January 2023, after she wrote it [that] last December.
She was nervous to play them for me. I remember listening to it by myself and when the tag came in at the time, which was different. The original line was "Bloodsucker, famef—er, love me like a vampire." When I heard the "famef—er" I was like, "Oh! That was cool." From there, we workshopped it.
I loved the idea, but I thought there were some things that could be improved upon. So we spent that whole day just trying out all these little intricacies, changing lyrics here and there. It was a slow evolution.
At the time, Olivia had been off the internet, but she wound up posting a little teaser clip. We actually worked on it on the anniversary [of when] "driver's license" came out. But we both liked it a lot and were excited.
My initial thought was that it was a ballad, so later on the initial demo I recorded some drums and a guitar and it was a full ballad. When I played it for Olivia two days later, she was like, "No. I don't like it." So then I switched it to double-time and put a kick in and made it more intense, which she loved, which began a whole other process of trying to figure out how to arc the song, because it builds and builds and builds. Then we had to figure out how to arc the vocal performance, then we made the bridge weeks later and every time we worked out we got more and more close.
I remember we had a meeting where we played it for her management. It wasn't done and the transitions weren't fully realized yet, but I remember that we were [still] excited about it. They were just like, "Yeah… sounds like three songs in one? Interesting."
We were so disappointed at the meeting… We thought this was good! So we worked on it more and the next time we played it for people that's when everybody got excited about it. There are so many versions of the song, I can't even count them. But maybe one day we'll put together a folder of all of them.
Read More: 5 Lessons Olivia Rodrigo Learned On 'GUTS'
"ballad of a homeschooled girl" is also nominated for Best Rock Song. Was that always designed as a high-energy rock song?
For the genesis of the song, the verse and the chorus, we wrote it the very first day we got to Electric Lady Studios in New York City. We were hanging out in the lounge and talking about what we wanted to do when we were there with a whole week booked out.
I had an acoustic guitar in my hand. She said, "I want to write a song that feels like this" and I picked up a guitar, played some chords and she just started singing. Within 10 minutes, we wrote it and had a Voice Note of it and forgot about it.
It wasn't until months later when we were writing and writing without doing any production, it got to the point where we decided we should put together some real demos for people. I put together a demo of it and she was shocked and loved it, and it spiraled from there.
Take me through the evolution of another favorite from the album, "Get Him Back!"
We also wrote that one at Electric Lady on an acoustic guitar. The bridge was originally the verse. "I wanna key his car…" "That was our original verse. But we wrote it, wrote the chorus, had the song and I recorded a scratch demo. Olivia didn't like it and said, "I don't know if that's the right verse."
It wasn't until weeks later when I said, "What if we made the old verse the bridge?" And we were like, "Wow, that actually works way better than the original!" But it took us a long time to realize that was the path of the song.
How does it feel going from making commercial jingles to having such a monumental impact on American popular music, not to mention these GRAMMY nominations?
It feels pretty good. I will admit that. It doesn't feel real sometimes, but it's pretty awesome.
Olivia is a real special person, and I feel very fortunate that I get to make music with her. We're really just trying to have fun making music.