If anyone could make podcasting feel authentically punk rock, it’s Steve Jones. The Sex Pistols guitarist — who just saw his life story depicted on screen by director Danny Boyle in FX/Hulu’s bio-drama series "Pistol"— is trying his hand at the platform as of late, presenting his popular radio show "Jonesy’s Jukebox" in a new format for a new audience on Spotify and whereever podcasts are available.
A treasure trove of memories and insights featuring conversations with iconic figures via his old radio show of the same name (broadcast first on L.A.’s now-defunct Indie 103.1 FM, then on KROQ 106.7 FM for a short stint, and finally, the classic rock stalwart KLOS 95.5 FM), "Jonesy’s Jukebox" features candid chats with everyone from the Pretenders’ Chrissie Hynde (who is also featured on "Pistol") to Siouxsie and the Banshees and New York Dolls’ David Johansen, as well archived talks with old bandmates John Lydon and Glen Matlock and now-deceased manager Malcom McClaren. Conversations released so far are from the last decade, now previewed with new intros in which Jones provides post-"Pistol" context in his unconventionally honest, occasionally self-deprecating and always engaging style. There’s also brand new interviews with the "Pistol" cast and filmmaker Boyle, and more to come.
"Pistol" was based on Jones’ 2016 autobiography Lonely Boy, but it strives to be more than one man’s story; Boyle set out to chronicle both the band’s short but impactful existence and the era in which it emerged (mid-1970s London) when their music and anarchistic message changed everything. Formed with his high school friend, drummer Paul Cook, then adding bassist Glen Matlock, Jones' first group evolved quickly after he met Malcolm McLaren at his and designer Vivienne Westwood’s King Road boutique, SEX. The young troublemaker and petty thief soon became a muse for the pair and their anti-establishment ideas, which evolved as they were given a provocative new name (they started as the Strand and later the Swankers) and added singer Johnny Rotten. Matlock was later replaced with the infamous Sid Vicious.
Though they only released one record, 1977’s Never Mind the Bollocks: Here’s the Sex Pistols, the band became legends (living ones, as all are still alive except of course, Vicious, who died of a heroin overdose soon after being accused of killing his girlfriend Nancy Spungen).
Arguably, the Pistols' music and image remain symbolic for everything that "punk" stands for: intentionally tattered and deconstructed anti-fashion, loud, noisy, aggressive music, and an ethos rooted in anarchy and destruction of societal mores. The band who famously refused their induction into the Rock & Hall of Fame in 2006 never veered from their defiant legacy, which was celebrated on film in 1980 via McLaren’s The Great Rock n’ Roll Swindle, Julien Temple’s 2000 documentary The Filth and the Fury, and Gary Oldman's 1986 vehicle Sid & Nancy.
Rotten remains a recognizably irascible music figure, mostly due to his outspoken nature and as frontman for Public Image Ltd (PIL), which still plays shows and festivals. Other than the Pistol’s 1996 "Filthy Lucre" reunion tour, Cook and Matlock have stayed mostly under the radar, though Matlock is currently the touring bassist for Blondie. Jones has shown himself to be the most versatile of the bunch, playing in a few different bands over the years — the Professionals with Cook, an act called P with Johnny Depp and the Butthole Surfers’ Gibby Haynes, and the supergroup Neurotic Outsiders with members of Guns n' Roses and Duran Duran (their self-tilted debut was just re-released last month on Supermegabot Records). He’s also had a smattering of memorable acting roles, from "Roseanne" to "Portlandia" to "Californication."
Now that "Pistol" has re-introduced Jones and his seminal rock band to a new generation, "Jonesy’s Jukebox" serves as an inimitable complement to the series — especially for those who want to learn more about the emergence and evolution of British punk and how it influenced music of all genres both within and outside the U.K.. GRAMMY.com spoke with Jones by phone about the show, his relationship with Lydon, and the band that turned rebellion and chaos into chart-topping success.
What made you decide to bring back "Jonesy’s Jukebox" as a podcast? Did "Pistol" spark the idea or did you already want to do it anyway?
No I was going to do it anyway, just because every other Tom, Dick and Harry does one so why not? I just remembered how great [the radio show] was…. It just happened naturally and it was just a fluke, really. But it turned into something great. I did get a lot of complaints and people would be like, "that was s—, man. I want AC/DC!"
My true passion is the other way, playing music too. I like interviewing people, don't get me wrong. That can be fun. As long as you're not asking the usual quack questions. I like opening someone up a bit and talking about different stuff.
The conversation you ran with the late Tony Wilson (of the Manchester music scene and Factory Records) was great because it went over your radio career and how it led to where you are now.
I was driving around L.A. and I came across Indie on my car radio. I'm like, ‘Oh, wow, what is this punk rock station and there's no commercials?’ I didn't realize that the reason they didn't play any commercials was because it just started and they hadn't gotten any advertising. So then I ….said "please I would like to DJ," and it kind of happened.
I didn't know what I was doing. But it turned into a great community thing. You’re driving around in LA, listening to it live, and anything can happen. Anything can change. Anyone can show up. And I could play anything. I played whatever I felt like at that moment in time. It wasn't planned out. It wasn't like radio is now, when they have a format and you have to kind of talk in between it or like on Sirius and all that. They're not playing the music live. They're just talking and then putting the songs in later. To me, that's just like work. That's not fun.
That's the one thing missing a bit, listening to your old shows now in this format, we hear you back-announce the great music that you played initially, but now it’s cut. Still, "Jukebox" maintains that spontaneous energy and great talk. I was pleasantly surprised when I first noticed it on Spotify, especially right after watching "Pistol."
When "Pistol" was coming out, we put one [podcast out] a week on a Monday and ran shows that coincided– that's why we did Tony Wilson, Malcolm McLaren, Chrissie Hynde and John Lydon, because they’re all in it.
You are now recording new interviews for this podcast and you're going to continue the podcast, which is great news. Will we be getting more old archived shows? Will you mix old and new each week? What's the plan for the rollout?
I don't know what the plan is to be honest with you. If I can't find someone to interview, maybe [I'll] pick up an old one. I mean, there's tons of it. It's good, because most people wouldn't even have heard these old ones anyway. It's a different world from when Indie collapsed in 2007-2008.
I recall some great shows you did on KLOS as well, with people like Dave Grohl and Metallica. Will we hear those too?
I believe some of those are on YouTube now. That's a good question. I'm not sure yet.
It’s the early days and it's loose, but I am going to pursue it as best as I can.
The looseness of those interviews is what makes them special. Speaking of, the Chrissie Hynde show was so fun and flirty. And it was a bonus to hear you two playing music together too. Is that something that you will do — pick up your guitar and jam out with more guests?
I think that's totally possible and that is a good avenue to go down. You know, just a couple of acoustics and just jam, that could be fun.
Listening back to that one and then watching your romance with her as it played out in "Pistol" made it all the more insightful and entertaining. Any comment on how your relationship with Hynde was portrayed in the program?
Well, it was definitely, you know, pushed a little more than reality. We definitely hung out a lot back in the day, but not as much as it’s portrayed in "Pistol." But it definitely was a thing. But I wasn't interested in her music, I just wanted to get busy with her.
Well, that really comes out in the interview — that it was a physical thing mostly. I think we all know when we watch movies and shows about bands in any format that certain things are exaggerated. But it was really exciting to hear you and Chrissie reminiscing about your wild days fooling around, going to parties and all of that.
The big interview everyone will definitely want to hear is the 2004 John Lydon conversation, which in the context of now, feels like an important piece of history. That was the first time you guys had talked in a very long time, and the only later era conversation on tape.
That interview with John was a good one.
It really brings another dimension to what we all see in "Pistol," which has gotten really great reviews for the most part. Has that made you happy?
Yeah, of course. You don't want to get a flop out there. There's always going to be naysayers. It's not a documentary, which I say all the time. It's for fun and entertainment. There's a lot of truth in it. But you're going to get these sticklers who are complaining that I don't have the right guitar strap and stuff, which is ridiculous. Just watch it and look at the big picture. And if you don't want to watch it, don't watch it. It's all good.
I think Danny did a great job. He's from the same era as me. It meant a lot to him. He was a punk when it all started. I know everyone's moaning about Disney’s involvement and blah blah blah Disney, but they stepped up to the plate. I’ve got no problem.
How much say did you have? Were you on set during any of the filming? What was your input while it was being made?
I didn't want to go to England. I had a heart attack in 2019 and it took me a long time to recover. I would get panic attacks and anxiety. Everyone was begging me to go over there when they were filming it. I actually went to the airport and I was trying to put on a brave face. I went to the airport and I literally couldn't get on the plane; I just came back. I felt disappointed that I couldn't physically do it. But it was all too much for me.
I just went recently for the premiere because I'm a lot better now than I was.
I hung out with Toby [Wallace, who played him in "Pistol"] a lot — he came to L.A. And I hung out with Craig Pearce, the screenwriter, when he came out for a couple of weeks. I gave Toby some guitar lessons. But I really didn't have a lot of input.
When they started filming, you know I'd see rushes and a few stills here and there, and I was like, "wow, it looks very authentic." But with Danny Boyle doing it, I was like just let him get on with it. That’s how he does it anyway, he don't really listen to anyone. You know, he's got his vision and I'm totally cool with that. I don't need to be poking my nose in.
That's a good point. And so sorry to hear about your heart attack. Glad that you're better now.
Yeah, that was almost three years ago. It was definitely a wake up call for me. I wasn't looking after myself. The hardest thing was having panic attacks. I never had any panic attacks or anything like that prior to the heart attack. I was never a basket case at all. And I turned into a bit of a basket case, but I'm out of it now.
Though critically acclaimed, many music snobs and punk purists also took issue with the accuracy of "Pistol," as you mentioned. What are your feelings about that?
What I liked about it, is that some people have no idea who the Sex Pistols are or they have no idea even what rock and roll is, but still they enjoyed the story.
True. And obviously, it was casted with young actors, some of whom have their own followings. So a new generation got to learn about the impact of the band. Maybe they’ll even seek out the music and you'll win new fans.
I think it's important for young people now to see what that was like back then. And how free it was back then to do whatever the hell you wanted to do, and make something happen. Just to see it, you know, you don't have to change. I'm glad it was done.
Even the band’s members don't all agree with how certain things went down. In your opinion, what was the biggest thing that "Pistol" really nailed versus what was not really very accurate?
I know that it was a big issue for Glenn. Me and my manager did push Danny to say that he wasn't fired from the band, but that he left. It’s kind of wishy washy in the show. I know Glenn is upset the way he was portrayed in it.
I think John is portrayed very good in it. It shows how great he was back in the day.
And it shows how young we were and how we created a great album at such an early age and how it was a little bit of magic for a short period of time. It captures that.
Since you mentioned John, he has been talking to the press quite a bit since "Pistol" came out, mostly negatively. We don’t know if he actually watched it, though. Have you talked to him?
I see the interviews and all that and I wouldn't expect anything less from him, but to be honest I never speak to John even though we live in the same city. I haven’t spoken to him since 2008 when we did some shows in Europe.
There was an issue with using the music in "Pistol," but ultimately you guys went to court and won against John since it was majority rules in terms of permissions right?
We didn't want to go to court. We reached out to get him involved in it. He wasn't interested for whatever reasons, maybe because it wasn't about him. He just did what John does, you know. None of us was expecting him to go along with it to be honest.
Ironically, he really does come off fairly complex, as far as his emotional depth, songwriting skill, and passion for what he believed and was doing.
I don't think he saw it at all when he was bad mouthing it. He probably thought we were doing it to just destroy him because he's obviously making it all about him again. And it was trying to tell the story as close as possible and to get the human elements of the relationship with me and him. I think that was the magic.
You know Sid was one thing; the two of them together looked brilliant. No question about it. And John wanted Sid in because he always wanted his mate… he always felt like it was just me and Cookie [Paul Cook] and no one wanted to hang out with him.
Glenn and him didn't really see eye to eye….But the real chemistry, I think, was when I played guitar and John put words to it. However you want to look at that. And maybe a lot of people don't, but I think the show kind of tapped on that a bit. That there was something special between us.
It was and ultimately it makes the story more compelling. It also makes you wonder what happened to all of you afterward. The podcast provides some answers in that regard. Let’s talk about your other music projects. Your all-star group the Neurotic Outsiders first record was just re-released.
I think that was a great record. Around '95-96 that group started organically from just some guy who we did a benefit for at the Viper Room. We played one week and then we said "oh, that was great, let's do it again." It was John Taylor of Duran Duran, Duff Mckagan and Matt Sorum of Guns n’ Roses. We just played every Monday at the Viper Room and it became a thing.
You would often have big names sometimes jump on stage to jam with you guys right?
All the time. Iggy Pop, Sporty Spice, Chrissie [Hynde].
Any music projects currently? Working on anything?
Not really.
Well, your fans probably hope that changes. Do you still play at home for pleasure?
Absolutely. Actually there was the Generation Sex thing we did somewhat recently. It was me and Billy Idol and the original bass player from Generation X and Cookie. We did a couple of shows. We did one at the Roxy, I think it was around 2019, and we did one in New York, which was a lot of fun. That's a possibility. We might be doing that again next year.
But to be very honest with you. I really don't give a s— about playing anymore live. I'm just jaded. I just don't care. I see these old bands getting back together and I think they look ridiculous. Rock n' roll, to me, is a young man’s game.
What about the Rolling Stones?
Well I mean, I would never go and see them. Don't get me wrong, I like them. They must obviously love it. They obviously don't need the money, but it's a different thing.
The Pistols, it’s a lot harder and faster tempos, it’s a lot of work. When you’re loose like the Stones I guess you can be a hundred and still be doing it. I don't know.
So the eternal question of will the Sex Pistols ever re-unite live on stage is off the table then?
I had a dream last night, funnily enough. I don't normally remember dreams anymore, but we were in a room together rehearsing. It was a new thing and we were all kind of getting along, even knowing that "Pistol" was still a thorn in John’s side. We were still rehearsing to go on the road. It was bizarre.
For a lot of music fans, that is a dream come true.
I hate saying it ain’t ever going to happen. It only pays off if I need a new kitchen or something. I guess you never know.