Dinner Party is a distinctly egoless organization, but it wasn't that way by default. Like stones smoothed by waves through the ages, Robert Glasper and Terrace Martin have been humbled time and time again. There was the time Martin got too big-headed on tour with Snoop Dogg and got the pink slip in his hotel room, losing almost his entire income in an instant. For Glasper, there are too many anecdotes to pick just one.
"I don't have an ego when it comes to creativity, because it'll prevent you from creating real estate for your family and for yourself," says Martin, a rapper, saxophonist, producer and four-time GRAMMY nominee. "To be closed-minded is not about just your mind being closed. Your health is closed; your relationships are closed; your finances are closed; everything is closed."
"Oh, I've been taught a lesson," Glasper, a four-time GRAMMY-winning keyboardist and producer, tells GRAMMY.com. "And then you take that lesson and move on, because you realize: 'OK, that didn't work out for me. Let me change my whole thought process.'" Despite any number of setbacks along the way, Glasper has enjoyed a dynamite career on his own terms. He sums it all up in four words: "No losing. Just learning."
These decades of learning the hard way are why Dinner Party — a project between Glasper; Martin; saxophonist Kamasi Washington; and producer, DJ and MC 9th Wonder — is stress-free and stylistically borderless. In 2020, they released a self-titled EP to rave reviews; the following year, they upgraded it.
Their remix album, Dinner Party: Dessert, has been nominated for Best Progressive R&B Album at the 2022 GRAMMY Awards. Dessert brings famous friends to the proverbial table, among them Herbie Hancock and Tank and the Bangas, and is narrated by Snoop Dogg. "I didn't know Snoop wanted to narrate it!" the man he fired, Martin, says astonishedly. "He was like, 'Keep the mic on.'" Circle closed, and lesson learned.
While you wait to see if the foursome will win the golden gramophone on April 3, read on for a revealing interview with Glasper and Martin about the forces that shaped them as artists — and enabled them to create together without a sliver of pomposity.
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.
How did you guys react when you learned you'd been nominated?
Martin: "Baby, get the dress ready."
Glasper: "Whatcha wearin'?"
Martin: "I've only got one ticket, so you'd better make it right!"
Glasper: It was cool because we've both been nominated many times separately, obviously. It's just dope to get nominated with your brother on a project that y'all worked on during COVID — you know what I mean?
Martin: And literally, the idea came from Rob and me backstage at a show. So, from the idea to this has always been a warm thing. That s*** works.
Glasper: We've known each other since we were 15 at jazz camp! So, you go from talking about jazz camp to going to the GRAMMYs together! It makes it feel a little different.
The original Dinner Party album was suffused with camaraderie. What inspired you guys to bring more people into the picture?
Martin: Jimmy Iovine.
Glasper: Yep, Jimmy.
Martin: Robert and I went to Jimmy's house for dinner. Me, Rob, Dr. Dre, a few other cats. [Director] Allen Hughes was there. And Jimmy was so hyped about the first Dinner Party album that he called us for dinner. He was telling us how he loved it; he looked at us and was like, "Yo, you guys should do it again and get all your rapper friends. Get all your this; get all your that."\
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I was kind of like [Meekly] "OK, yeah, yeah, yeah." But then Rob was like, "Ay, let's do that s***." So, we just started going through the motions. We tapped back in with Jimmy a few times. Throughout the pandemic, we were getting a million COVID tests to go talk to Jimmy. We were hanging down here, but we were getting consulting from Jimmy Iovine!
Glasper: You have to get a COVID test to talk to Jimmy Iovine on the phone! [Laughs.] It was real, Jack!
Martin: Matter of fact, Jimmy was the first rapid test we did!
Glasper: He sent a mess to the house the first time!
Martin: Jimmy had that s***, bro, before anybody here heard about that s***! He had a nurse come with the whole s*** on!
Iovine is a music-biz legend. What’s he like to hang out with?
Martin: Rich.
Glasper: [Laughs.] He just does things that aren't in your stratosphere. Just like, "Oh, really? Really?"
We were at his house, and we were talking about Nobu. We were eating Nobu food and we were like, "Oh, you got Nobu delivered to the house!" He's like, "Oh, no, no, no. They're here in my kitchen! I got the staff from Nobu to come to my kitchen and cook it! That's what we're eating!"
Martin: It's different. It's different. A lot of folks talk the talk, but Jimmy walks the walk — all the way from [being] a true student of the music and master of hearing things to putting deals together.
When I hear Snoop and Dr. Dre and everybody talk about him, his whole thing is "His ideas work." If you listen, his ideas work. We don't have any business with him — we're not signed to Jimmy — but he's a friend now, and he offered information that we took. And now, we're GRAMMY-nominated.
It seems like Iovine has uncanny decision-making abilities.
Martin: He's been in front of a change in music four times. He has a pretty good idea — no matter what genre or whatever. The first thing that he said when Robert and I walked into the room…
Glasper: "I hate jazz."
Martin: Yes!
[Both laugh.]
Glasper: He was like, "I remember in the '70s, I used to work in a record store, and blah blah blah blah blah! I hated jazz music! I hated it! But Dinner Party… I love it! It's different!" He went on and on and on. We were like, "Oh, snap."
That's a wild thing to say.
Martin: No, no, no, no, no, no. I want to change that. It's not a wild thing to say. If you're not into jazz, like, I don't like green peas. I hate green peas. It's not wild to say I don't like green peas. I hate that s***. I don't like certain music; I hate that s***. So when he said that, I didn't take it offensively.
First of all, cats like me and Robert, we've been trained — and trained ourselves — to be such vast artists. We also work in hip-hop, where a lot of hip-hop motherf***ers don't like jazz. A lot of jazz guys don't like hip-hop.
I think that's what makes Robert and myself special in that light — to where you can say what you want to say, because we can relate to you in every kind of way. And I think that's why the Dinner Party record is like that.
It didn't bother us when he said that, because I hate jazz sometimes. And not only do I play it, but I've lived what people read about the jazz life. I hate hip-hop sometimes! I don't like everything every day. So when he said that, that would have destroyed a lot of artists that I know…
Glasper: Right.
Martin: …but when he said that, I was like, "Well, shoot. Whatcha like?"
What led you two to be musically omnivorous?
Glasper: I think because African-Americans have given America so many different styles of music. It's in our blood. All the music comes from our bloodline, from rock to jazz to hip-hop to gospel to R&B. You can keep going on and on and on and on and on. It's not so far-fetched.
People have been like, "Why do you like rock music? Why do you mix rock and jazz? Why do you mix rock, jazz and R&B?" That's like asking, "Why are your brothers and sisters playing with each other?"
We both come from musical households. My mom was a musician, and she loved all styles of music. His dad is a musician and loves all styles of music. So, we just came up under that like it was nothing. Blurred lines.
Martin: Not only were our parents doing music, but they did it for a living as well. When your mom and dad are doing gigs, every gig ain't no jazz gig. It's clubs, bar mitzvahs…
Glasper: Survival gigs.
Martin: They're survival gigs. If you saw me in L.A. early in my life, you wouldn't believe I played saxophone. I was playing keyboards, playing Top 40; Frankie, Beverly and Maze; and the new Usher song that just came out.
Glasper: When I first met Kamasi [Washington], he was on keys with Chaka Khan in New York, at B.B. King's.
Martin: Working.
Glasper: I had no idea he played sax! I thought he was a keyboard player.
When you're coming up as a professional musician, you often have to know many different styles and change directions on a dime. So, perhaps that was passed down to you guys.
Martin: It was passed on to be an adult and survive before music. It was passed on to work.
Man, I asked Quincy Jones one time, "What's the difference between self-confidence and ego?" He said, "Ego prevents you from going to the bank."
I don't have an ego when it comes to creativity — and I know Rob doesn't either — because it'll prevent you from creating real estate for your family and for yourself. To be closed-minded is not about just your mind being closed. Your health is closed; your relationships are closed; your finances are closed; everything is closed.
I started noticing that in certain artists. The cats that did one thing, and one thing well. But when s*** changed up, it was bad. I don't like looking bad. I just don't. I don't like being uncomfortable.
Rob and I love all kinds of music. That's the bottom line. I'm giving you the science to that. We've got to love it all.
The longer I'm in the music industry, the more I realize that nothing is off-limits. There's a kernel of value even in music you can't stand — if not for you, then for someone else.
Martin: Not to drop another name, but these are our friends: Herbie Hancock always said, "You can find beauty within every problem."
Glasper: You can hear something and say, "Oh, so that's why that doesn't work." No losing. Just learning.
How did you choose who you'd include on Dinner Party: Dessert?
Glasper: Terrace was like, "Yo, I have a young rapper friend who wants to get on. Can we please let him narrate the whole thing?" I was like, "Who?" He was like, "Snoop Dogg." I said, "Who the hell is that?"
Martin: [Laughs.]
Glasper: This whole thing is about helping out Terrace's friends who are not known, really. I'm the keyboard player, and he wanted to bring in some guy named Herbie to play a song!
Martin: It was easy because I always tell everybody: "Relationships are key in the music business." Everywhere, but in music especially.
One thing that Rob and I have done with artists is to walk into their records, no ego, and give them all of us — and leave asking for nothing. When you finally understand that and we're all on the same page, it's not that hard to do.
With managers and lawyers, it's always a thing — but with artists, it's very smooth. Everybody wanted to be part of it, though! I didn't know Snoop wanted to narrate it! He was like, "Keep the mic on."
How do you engender an environment where nobody artistically butts heads?
Martin: Kill the ego.
Glasper: Absolutely.
Martin: That's it. If you've got an ego, bring some good food, wine, weed. Laugh and talk. Ask people how their families are doing. No ego.
It's not like you're asking artists to be in a room with slappers as well, too. Everybody's at a certain level where that's not even a thought to even bring ego in. Everybody is at this high level, so there's no room for any ego. We're all on this plane where it's like, "Let's all coexist and be together."
Was it a process for you both to dismantle your egos, or is that something that comes naturally to you?
Glasper: Oh, I've been taught a lesson. [Laughs.]
Martin: We all have.
Glasper: And then you take that lesson and move on, because you realize: "OK, that didn't work out for me. Let me change my whole thought process."
Martin: I was taught a lesson. I was touring with Snoop for years — six, seven years. Snoop was one of my best friends, and he fired me — sent me home. My job was to do the letters and put them under the hotel door: "Thank you, your services are no more, here's a plane ticket."
One day, I was at my hotel, and my ego went crazy for the whole tour. And I heard something go [Mimics paper sliding] "Ftttp!" I was like, "I know that sound!" I went to the door, and it was the envelope I used to do! It took me 10 minutes to open that motherf***er.
Snoop taught me a big lesson because I thought I could never get fired from anything in my life. I thought I was just it. Snoop had hired a band, and I didn't like the way certain band members played. I was being mean and arrogant to them; my ego was out of control. I was being a spoiled f***ing person, and I lost everything.
That time, Snoop Dogg was 95 percent of my income, if not 98 percent. The other two percent was breeding pit bulls and selling them, which was nothing. At that time, it got bad financially. I said, "Remember what Quincy Jones said? My ego kept me from the bank."
So, I was like "Even if I have an ego, I'm going to hide that motherf***er. Hard."
Glasper: Not to bring him up again, but Herbie said one time, "Music is what you do. Everyone's a person first. And what you do is what you do after that, but you're a person first." At the end of the day, you can lose what you do. It can be no more, and then you're just left with who you are.
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